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Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:19 am
by blah blah
If I am away from home & family I expect to be paid the same rate regardless, The band are not only paying for me to do my job they are also paying for my time - this has not been a problem for me, I refuse to change my weekly rate, if the band want 4 days off in hawaii thats their choice, I'm still away from home & expect the same gig rate of pay. I will not comprimise on this ever, I get half my weekly rate when we have a week off and I'm at home and that's ok and understandable and acceptable, its retainer or no retainer I guess

Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:23 pm
by Darkside
reading thru this post, what i find hard to understand is that most of us are doing a job we love, earning good money and expect top wages all the time. With regard to Half days ( I normally offer 75% depending on the budget ) but you have to accept that the band is also on a day off meaning that they are not earning anything from gig income, but are forking out for your hotels, PD's etc, Days off on a tour are usually costing the band anywhere between £1000 min and 10,000 depending on size of the tour. I think in examples like the Rolling Stones tour quoted earlier, they should pay full wages , but in the bread and butter touring, uness you can make some comprimises then it's going to get harder to find tours, which means we will all be sitting at home doing bugger all or out working local gigs with PA companies or lighting companies etc etc and earning a lot less than tour rates.

Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:47 pm
by yardsy
RandallG has to be a Manager either Band,Tour or Production.If you are quite happy taking half pay for days off/travel then I may employ you but you would be the only one on my crew!.Management offices across the world are working day & night to chip away at our earnings with bright new ideas to earn their bonus and a pat on the back.eg Can you do keys,guitars and drums oh, and drive the truck as we have a small budget and we will bump up your money next tour?Next tour never happens.. believe me!
It is the duty of a good Production Manager to ensure that his crew get the best deal that he can instead of the best deal for himself as happens so often these days.
Record companies are in trouble as we all know but they don't take a cut in pay.
If you do not fight your corner and roll over,you will find yourself earning the same money that was paid 30 years ago.Not only do you get paid for your time but also for your knowledge and experience.....if you are competent...don't give it away!
You would never think that I talk as a Production Manager, now would you?

Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:23 am
by rockmixer
You should be paid Full pay for anytime you are not at your home. Plus most tours prorate your pay based on 7 day weeks. It is not up to the crew to make sure there are shows. A tour should be planned out in advance taking into acct what a person is getting paid.

Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:46 pm
by Heinzling
I only do weekly wages and parts thereof. That week starts when I lock my frontdoor.

Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:25 am
by Darkside
Being in the middle of record company negotiations right now, I can tell you the state of pay and conditions is only going to get worse over the next few years, take the Live Nation business model, it's obvious that they are buying up promoters, venue's etc, cutting deals with PA and lighting companies, they can't buy freelance crew members..... or can they, of course they will soon start dictating how much they will pay crews etc, it's a numbers game, they will soon be the only game in town and as such will dictate market values. The frightening thing is that the record companies and their new 360 business models are now chipping away at tour incomes, leaving even less money for the band to pay for everything, so again there will have to be some cost cutting, and guess what it's the crew that will get it in the a** again. here is an example of a deal i heard of recently, the label wanted ( and got ) the rights to 35% of the GROSS tour income in retrun for tour support, go figure, if you were going to make a huge profit on a tour then why the need for tour support ? however if/when that band gets past the early loss making stages, they are still going to lose 35% of the gross on every show they do, even though the record company will also re coup the original tour support . That 35% is your wages, your catering and your PD's, it's also a large portion of the profit they may have other wise made, and may well mean you get a old tourbus cos it's cheap, and a couple of weeks off days off in some travelodge miles from anywhere, cos it's cheap. Don't blame the artist or the management, they have no choice and have to make the budgets work or the alternative, don't tour.... Anyway you look at it, it's going to hurt us all

Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:10 am
by MerchGirl
As the merch person, days off for me are spent doing paperwork, accounting, soundscans, trips to the bank, etc etc, so I work almost as much on days off as I do on show days. It's one thing when I'm offered commission on a tour (vending fees...which are about 50% of the time), then I am making less on days off or days where I'm not physically selling , which is fine, but I won't do a tour that wants to offer me less money for non-show days. It's one thing when that employee doesn't have to do work related stuff on days off (ie, backline or foh that are in non-managerial positions), but even then that's not fair. You have no other opportunity to make money on those days off. Tour managers, production managers, merch, anyone that is working on days off, there should be no question about it. You should be compensated for your time and work.

Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:15 pm
by warnerorama
What exactly is a day off on the road? It's either traveling in a bus all day, flying, or sitting in a room with someone walking back and forth above you and a lousy air conditioner, and 20.00 internet.
If you are lucky to get a full day off, you usually stay in a hotel downtown, on a Sunday where everything is closed or a 20.00 cab ride to get to a mall to catch a movie. For dinner you usually have to order a pizza or pay 20.00 for a hamburger at the hotel. Like someone else posted before, I do the shows for free, it's all of the other crap I get paid for.

Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:40 pm
by Ripley
Randell G. wrote:No offence to anyone , but goddamn some of you band techs are way over greedy.


The point I wanted to make in reply to this has been kind of covered by SheffGruff's post over in the 'How Much?' thread. However, here it is as I've gone to all the trouble of typing it-

The use of the phrase ‘band techs’ in the above post would suggest that this person is an American. Some of the rest of us in the world do not unfortunately have the advantage of the cheap cost of living enjoyed in the US, so here for his/her benefit is some of the people who are in reality being ‘way over greedy’-

1)The tax office who, when you make your annual payment, also demand a ‘payment on account’ i.e. an additional payment to cover your projected earnings for the upcoming year, effectively you are forced to pay tax on money YOU HAVEN’T EVEN EARNED YET.

2)The UK government who levy an almost 60% tax on the cost of fuel making it the equivalent of $5.00 a (US) gallon.

3)Mortgage lenders who have just pushed up interest rates to cover the huge losses the banks have made because a load of your countymen/women took out sub prime mortgages that they couldn’t afford (although, to be fair, it’s the banks fault for giving them out in the first place but that won’t change the bottom line for those now footing the bill).

4)The energy companies who have announced a 25% increase in their charges, despite posting record profits for the umpteenth year running.

5)The introduction of charges now being made to drive into city centres and the appearance of road tolls, despite the fact that a ‘road tax’ exists that is supposed to cover the wear and tear we make on the highways.

6)Banks who are now charging ‘administration fees’ of the equivalent of $60-$140 to let you know that you were overdrawn by $2 for a hour or so last week.

7)Insurers who increase premiums and lower benefits and take months to reimburse for claims made.

Etc etc. I can’t be bothered to list any more, lobby call is in an hour and I haven’t showered yet.

You call any tradesman (heating engineer, plumber etc) out to your home and right there on his itemized invoice is journey time at his hourly rate. So why should my ‘journey time’ on travel days be any cheaper than my normal rate? My lawyer and my accountant have their published rates and do not deviate from them. The garage who service my car don’t do me a deal. The taxman isn’t waiving his interest rates on unpaid demands and the nursery charges me by the day whether my child is there for one hour or eight. My point is that no-one who is at the outgoing end of my finances is accepting a lower fee for their services so I am not in a position to do the same- that is not being ‘way over greedy’ that is merely balancing the books.

I agree with Randall G that ‘touring is fucking expensive nowadays’ but I feel that this fact is being used to justify corners being cut in all kind of cynical ways. What we owe to ourselves to do is make sure that, as crew members on any given tour, we are a valuable asset to that tour and that we are worth being paid top dollar. We need to eliminate our excesses and waste. I know backline techs who won't/can't be bothered to maintain a good relationship with endorser companies. Result- hundreds of pounds spent on strings/skins/sticks etc that could have been given free. I also know backline techs who order ALL their cables ready made and have never lifted a soldering iron in their lives. I've seen monitor engineers buy batteries for radio mics/in ears at retail price from the store next to the gig EVERY DAY because they didn't bother to do a count. We need to be efficient, knowledgeable and have the skills necessary to be able to perform outlandish and amazing feats of technical wizardary without just throwing money at the problem until it goes away. We need to be tidy, presentable and have good, helpful and considerate attitudes (difficult I know when on day 3 with no shower and little sleep). Gak monsters and bad tempered pissheads are only reinforcing the stereotype that the 'roadie' is a replaceable embarrassment whose wage and benefits should be the first for the accountants scissors.

Re: Half pay for travel / days off...

Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:24 pm
by joebobzen
If I am away from home and cannot work for anyone else that day, you will pay me 100% of my rate for my time. (period)